F.L.A.R.E will support only one Falcon
I decided to support only one version of Falcon (OF and future releases) so I will not develop F.L.A.R.E for FreeFalcon. This is a decision that I had to make at some point because my resources are limited and I simply don’t have enough time to support two versions with different requirements.
Besides it seems that FreeFalcon already has some new tiles and it would not make much sense to have two projects with the same intent. Instead I will work for a version that currently has no active tiles projects. Also, by choosing to support only one Falcon, I will be able to better spend my time on F.L.A.R.E and therefore focus all my attention on improving texture quality and overall look.
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My name is Giorgio Bertolone, I am the author and webmaster of this website. I work in the Visual Effects industry and I live in Vancouver with my wonderful wife and three adorable kids.
Since young age I had only two interests, computers and aviation. The first one became my job and the second one became one of my biggest passions.
At one point, I decided to put the two things together. The result was flight simulation. And this website was born.
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Noooooooooooooooo$
Why OF? IMHO the future of OF line is pretty much in darkness. 4.8 has been developed for years and still is nowhere.
BMS4? Yes, we have seen only two video and nothing else.
I know that GFX is also important, but DB and 3D models of OF line are mostly a bad joke…
I do not understand why the BMS line is preferred. FF have much bigger potentilan. Literally nothing improved in OF since 4.5 or 4.7, the OF code is very very old, comparing with OF.
Yes, BMS4 can be a wonderful thing but it is only an uncertain promise. There are many theater and campaigns under construction for FF. Most of them can use zour tiles + MolnyFalcon.
What projects are running for OF?
I think FF is a dead breed…hence the choice
cheers
Falcon means hardcore sim
Hardcore sim = open falcon
Freefalcon = I am not sure
Good decision
Hard but good choice I think. How many projects have we seen in the past that wanted to do everything possible (I want my project to do that, and to support that, and that and that too) and finally get abandonned because the dev wasn’t able to do all that by its own.
Here you can focus on one thing, finish it then start to think of the future (other versions, or some new work).
Original F4.
right choice!
@mav-jp
FreeFalcon is the *only* variant actually being worked on. FreeFalcon 5.5 and the patch 5.5.1 were released just months ago, and they already announced the next release is being tested.
OF, on the other hand, is truely dead. When was their last release? When is the next planned release? QED.
It’s really time the modders got behind the only version of Falcon currently being developed, instead of wasting their time supporting dead stubs of the Falcon tree.
Thus, IMO, to choose any version of Falcon other than FreeFalcon is a poor choice.
“Freefalcon = I am not sure”
Maybe you should find out!
Unlike OF, the devs at FreeFalcon are activly improving FreeFalcon. That’s reason enough for modders to support FreeFalcon.
It might be a good decision to support only one version of Falcon if one’s time is limited, but picking the right version of Falcon to support is just as important.
I would hate to think I wasted my time by working on something that had a questionable future. And that’s exactly what would happen if I supported OF.
FreeFalcon, on the other hand, is being aggressivly developed. So I feel confident the version will be around for a while, and I won’t be wasting my time.
@Trenton42
Trenton, how can you be really sure that FF is the only version being developed? Maybe you can say that as your assumption but you can’t be 100% sure.
Cheers!
First of all, there are legal reasons. Only one version has the IPO’s permission to continue work, and it’s not OF/BMS.
Secondly, IIRC, OF 4.7 was relased in December of 2008. In case someone doesn’t know, it’s September of 2010 now. Where is any evidence of on-going OF development?
On the other hand, look at what’s going on with FreeFalcon! In addition to sorting out the database mess that’s been haunting the Falcon community for years, there’s a vibrant community of modders aggressivly working on the FreeFalcon version — including guys at PMC working on a number of new theaters.
While it is true that some guys are working on a tile set for FreeFalcon, no one knows if they’ll actually finish it, or if it will be as good as your tiles. Additionally, with more resources concentrating on developing theaters for FreeFalcon, there will be more opportunities to create tiles.
I am working on my own little project for Falcon (not tiles), and had to decide for myself on which version to concentrate. After seeing the vibrant community at http://www.freefalcon.com and the complete lack of any evidence of on-going development on OF, it wasn’t hard to decide where to spend my time.
Of course, you must decide for yourself on which version to concentrate. But I would ask you to look a little more closely at the versions, and determine for yourself which versions have on-going development and which are seemingly dead. The proof is in the pudding I think.
Thanks for expressing your opinion but I believe I made the best choice for the future and time will tell.
If you allow me, I would suggest you to not make too many quick assumptions unless you have access to all the facts.
Good things come to those who wait.
On the GlobalFalcon forum, they state:
“Current [OF] development is cosmetic improvements only by the community here. Original OF dev team is no longer and we can’t edit the exe to make significant changes, but development continues. OF is supported here at Global Falcon”
“Development team is still together and making improvements. A Hotfix was recently released for FF5 that fixed a lot of bugs/issues, and FF5.1 is currently being worked on w/ an estimated release in September/October. FF5 is heavily supported by the dev team and FF5 community at http://freefalcon.com/forum/index.php”
http://www.f4support.com/forums/showthread.php?6330-Which-is-better-AF-FF5-OF-or-RV
You’ve mischaracterized my decision; it wasn’t a rash assumption to base my project on FreeFalcon at all; I actually flew all versions, and spent some time investigating the various communities to determine which would be best.
At this time, with my project, I can support only one version so the decision is important. Tiles are different and may very well be compatible (more or less) between the different versions; for example, I do know that my Falcon AF HiTiles are indeed compatible with FreeFalcon. Which may be another reason to support FreeFalcon; de facto support of two versions (FreeFalcon and AF) instead of just one (OF).
Anyway, if you have any evidence of real on-going OF development (as opposed to fans making cosmetic changes), please share it. I, for one, would love to see it.
Why support OF when there is no “active” support (other than “cosmetic” fixes)? FreeFalcon is ongoing, improving, and expanding with every release.
ok you’re right, my english grammar was incorrect
let me reformulate:
FF is not a dead breed, it is a dying breed
Amazing work my friend. Congrats to you for your effort and hard work. Can’t wait to see your work finished.
All the best!
Cipher
Hello Giorgio
I must admit that your work is superb !
I am just an Open Falconeer and I wonder if you ever thought to continue with other theaters like Aegean theater after finishing Korean.
My Rgds
Trenton42,
OpenFalcon is the right choice, FreeFalcon lost focus, instead to improve F-16 systems, flight model, build a good 3D cockpit and improve other relevant features, they prefer to spend time and resources with a lot of features that don’t agregate value to Falcon.
FreeFalcon has the source code, but they worked wrong on source code for a long time and today they spend a lot of time searching and fixing bugs, without project plan or requirement lists. I know that, because I worked with one programmer of RedViper Team and we saw a lot of problems on source code, written for people that don’t studied the code and without knowledge, compromising the stability of entire solution.
The BMS team and OpenFalcon community builded a lot of excellent improvements in a short time, working with good pratices in software enginnering and quality assurance, mantaining focus on realism. If the new BMS comes, it will come with quality, if it don’t come, OpenFalcon has a solid base and an organized community to continue the work on leaked version.
Damn! I thought this may happen. Disappointed, but I understand why. I was looking forward to carrier ops with the new scenery but nevermind
My disappointment aside, the FLARE project is looking great.
Us Freefalcon users are spoiled for choice when it comes to scenery anyway.
Will you allow peaople to work with your tiles? Then there would still be hope to see them in FF. My feeling is that they look much better than what is worked on actually for FF.
Xoxen out
“Trenton, how can you be really sure that FF is the only version being developed? Maybe you can say that as your assumption but you can’t be 100% sure.”
—->
We could see only some leaked stuff from BMS4. This was 6 month ago. This broke 4 years of silnece. Did we see more? No.
The “4.8″ topics on GF forum how old? Where is 4.8? Nowhere.
About 6 month ago mav-jp said that DB of BMS4 will be literraly the same as current OF (if BMS will be ever released…) OF4.8 is only a promise BMS4 is something like that.
I’m fed up with promises. Fighter Ops is still a promise. I saw the first shots about Jet Thunder about 5 years ago. It is still a promise. FF5.5.1 is here and it is got updates quite often comparing with any version of Falcon 4.
“OpenFalcon is the right choice, FreeFalcon lost focus, instead to improve F-16 systems, flight model, build a good 3D cockpit and improve other relevant features, they prefer to spend time and resources with a lot of features that don’t agregate value to Falcon.”
Or not… OF has more detalied F-16 system modeling but who cares if there is any decent campaign that is not childplay? Maybe it should be discovered the from late ’70s to early ’90s is the suitable era beucase of modeling and AI limitations. In this case who cares about a shiny Block50/52 with latest avionics if you are not able to give an enjoyable campaign…?
—————-
“FreeFalcon has the source code, but they worked wrong on source code for a long time and today they spend a lot of time searching and fixing bugs, without project plan or requirement lists. I know that, because I worked with one programmer of RedViper Team and we saw a lot of problems on source code, written for people that don’t studied the code and without knowledge, compromising the stability of entire solution.”
RV team members is long time ago left the FF team…
——————-
“If the new BMS comes, it will come with quality, if it don’t come, OpenFalcon has a solid base and an organized community to continue the work on leaked version.”
If, if, if… When? What about these issues?
- Stability?
- Working theaters with campaigns?
- Fixed DB? OF DB is so inaccurate that I have to cry…
I think FF is a dead breed…hence the choice
@mav-jp
I can think anything. Are you able to prove your statement? Can you show us anything that valide you statement about bright future of BMS?
molnibalage
Releases after releases show how much FreeFalcon is a crap, when they fix some bug they create another. The leaked version of OpenFalcon 4 years ago is much better, more stable, more realistic, has more features and a excellent 3D cockpit compared to FF5.
If you fly multiplayer in FF you must be grateful to the RedViper Team that did it possible, after all, the FF Team is unorganized and don’t have competency to work on the executable, they don’t have any significative improvements on the mod.
About OF4.8 you can follow the project status with requirement list on the official topic GF Forum, different of FF Team that don’t have a project plan, only a crashlog report.
what’s with the drama?
FF being FF, someone will come up and rip somebody elses hard work off, even if it’s against his will, and assimilate it into the FF hivemind…
“Releases after releases show how much FreeFalcon is a crap, when they fix some bug they create another.”
Maybe for you. For since FF5.3 FF is stable as a rock. Morveover OF is still run with a so small FPS that even in a TE FPS easily go under 24. Just think why the default airbase parking time is 2 min in OF and why 10 in FF…
————-
“The leaked version of OpenFalcon 4 years ago is much better, more stable, more realistic, has more features and a excellent 3D cockpit compared to FF5.”
Please prove why. Realistic? Are you crazy? AMRAAM on F-14s and other errors in DB? I have to laugh. About 1-1,5 year ago I made only a short list about what is inaccurate in DB. It was 6 page long…
—————-
“About OF4.8 you can follow the project status with requirement list on the official topic GF Forum, different of FF Team that don’t have a project plan”
Are you a member of FF team? As I know you are not. In this case you don’t know nothing about FF team. I also don’t know but I member of FF team sincs Nov. of 2007…
Yes, there is a plan (?) on public forum in GF. And who cares if doesn’t mean anything? Where is the outpout? Nowhere…
@Cipher, Sungsma: Thank you guys!
@Eduardo: I completely agree.
@Xoxen: I will decide about this later when the work is completed. Don’t forget that Integrating them it’s not that easy, you can’t just overwrite the old tiles without doing anything else. You also have to redo all the data associated with each tile (roads, river, sea, etc) or they will brake the campaign and create other issues.
@M8RT: Wow, I haven’t finished F.L.A.R.E yet and there is already talk about stealing it…
@molnibalage
S~!
I am new to the Falcon experience, (though heavy in other sims for many years) so I have no axe to grind about which version is best.
It is obvious to anyone that the community has spoken clearly and loudly for Open Falcon. There is just no real support for FF. The common complaint is one of ‘fun’ vs ‘realism’. I also feel this is where the FF devs have failed. Until there is a course change in the mindset of the Free Falcon vision/direction ….. I don’t see the community moving to FF anytime soon.
Its blatantly self evident that Giorgio made the correct decision in regards to which version to support. It is the Greatest Good for the Greatest Number of Pilots. I see no reason to attack him for his decision.
@Protos
“I am new to the Falcon experience, (though heavy in other sims for many years) so I have no axe to grind about which version is best.”
In this case I do not understand how dare you write rest of your post…
—————
“It is obvious to anyone that the community has spoken clearly and loudly for Open Falcon.”
If you read the posts here about 50-50% is the ratio between the “camps”.
—————
“There is just no real support for FF.”
WTF???? This was the joke of the month…
—————
“The common complaint is one of ‘fun’ vs ‘realism’. I also feel this is where the FF devs have failed.”
Can you explain why? Both version more or less have the same modeling values, even some typing bug in both DB are the same. What does it mean the ‘fun’ vs. ‘realism’? If FF falied this why OF not? What are you talking about?
——————
“Until there is a course change in the mindset of the Free Falcon vision/direction ….. I don’t see the community moving to FF anytime soon.”
Just check the post on FF and GF forum. The FF forum seems to be more active. I can’t prove but it seems to me that there is more FF user than OF.
—————
“I see no reason to attack him for his decision.”
I’m not attacking. I do not understand WHY he choose OF.
@moinibalage:
Please relax man! Come on, you already posted seven times to support your opinions. We get it, you prefer FF!
Nobody is stopping you from flying it if that’s what you like but allow me and other people to think differently.
I also want to clarify that my post is not about which version is better, it’s about F.L.A.R.E and my work. I don’t think that there is need to get so upset and let’s try to keep the language clean on this blog.
I already made this decision for my own reasons and I’m not going to change my mind. It’s impossible to make everyone happy and it had to be clarified at some point.
Roger.
I can live with your decision, but I can’t live statements that say “FF has no support”. This statement is similar to me as a red carpet for a bull…
I will be the most happier if BMS4 be succesful, stable and nice, ect. In this case I also make a MolnyFalcon MOD for BMS too! Problem its sclae, the current DB has it own limitations. If the 3D models and core DB will be the same I cannot make everything that I do with FF…
Otherwise it will be quite strange to see in a DX9.0 game a so outdated 3D models that some jet – mostly on red side – have.
I have a hunch that you know about something BMS4 that the public do not know.
There is something that you dont get…
FF has not the coder’s compenteces nor the source code in a state that allows to envisage a decent future for this branch.
If you look at the change log of each FF patch, this is the work that can be done in 2 weeks by a normal development team…it’s jsut cosmetic changes….nothing major has been done since RV left !
SO yes 3D models or DB could be more advanced than OF …but without code support it’s a dead end.
@mav-jp
“If you look at the change log of each FF patch, this is the work that can be done in 2 weeks by a normal development team…it’s jsut cosmetic changes….nothing major has been done since RV left ! ”
And? Not only the code makes the Falcon as sim as exist now. Until a MiG-21PF/MF use R-3R (AA-2C) or if an F-14 uses AMRAAM, I do not care so much on code envelopment. Why? Because even the nice eye candy work Falcon siumlate a situation that never was possible…
If you are so nice with FF team I thing about same thing about the plannaed updates on 4.8. I did not see anything serious.
For ex. creating the MolnyFalcon is not so hard. TESTING the changes take lot of time. If I want to make all changes that I plan I can do only with 1-2 week work. TESTING them means about 90% of my work. Less than 1% is making the changes the rest of 9% is research.
———-
“SO yes 3D models or DB could be more advanced than OF …but without code support it’s a dead end.”
Not only GFX and code upgrades exist. Not only this can make better the game.
For ex. such a small change in calculating froce ratio can upgrade the game as exist in FF. If you destroy an airbase its AC are subtracted from total qty. to ensure entering the conflict the rest team. As I know OF do not have this option. Why is very important this smalla change? If you destroy the 80% of aribases in the first 6 hours even the ‘zeroized’ red side the rest teams won’t enter into conflict untis an other trigger effect do not carry the same effect as the air fore ratio between teams.
@molni
Stop talking about cosmetic changes..stop talking about the past..you dont even realize how outdated your perspective is.
Lupin puts his bet on the future, i think he is right.
time will tell
@mav-jp
“Stop talking about cosmetic changes..”
Cosmetics for you…
————————
“stop talking about the past..you dont even realize how outdated your perspective is.”
I’m an engineer. I can count facts that are known for me. If you do not explain anyting, how can I form my opinion in a different way? –> That is why existhing the preview thread about my work. I can prove why is better / or different will be the MolnyFalcon and I’m not just saying that “how you are outdated”.
IMHO it is a bad joke that most of the system in all Falcon version is so far from real “milestone” paramateres that I have to cry…
———————-
“time will tell”
Yes, maybe will do it. But why not preview videos screenshots or dev. diaries tell us this?
Molni, who cares what they think. I agree with you buddy but there’s no point turning this into a flame off.
People tend to champion whatever game they bought or downloaded regardless of whether it’s any good (people bought Kane and Lynch for crying out loud).
“My games better than your game!”
“Nahhh, cos mines got like a flashy plane with bits all over it!”
“Meehhh, so’s mine, but it must be better cos I own it”
Let it go dude. You’ll never resolve this argument.
“My games better than your game!”
You did not get the point. The point of discussion was that which can be developed and how far. Not the current state is important.
“”You did not get the point. The point of discussion was that which can be developed and how far. Not the current state is important.”"
Discussion is moot. The Dev of F.L.A.R.E says he is going to support Open Falcon/BMS. Go fly FF and let the OF crowd have F.L.A.R.E …. after all FF is so much better why do you care what is created for OF/BMS ??
Breathe dude, get some sun, some beer and some womans.
My last post was only an observation to clary the topic.
It is sad to see so much ignorance and prevarication in this thread.
Red Viper left a long time ago; in fact, even further back in history than OF’s last release! While they did make some contributions, the simple fact is that MP is much more stable in FreeFalcon 5.5.1 than it was in FreeFalcon/Red Viper 4.
The latest releases of FreeFalcon prove the devs did the right thing by concentrating on stabilizing the base code, instead of continuing to build on a shaky foundation. And to say the latest releases are nothing but cosmetic is nothing short of ignorant.
It’s OF that is resigned to cosmetic changes only, and their next promised release is already a year overdue.
It was said in an earlier post that “good things come to those that wait.” Well, I’ve already waited over a year for the last scheduled release of OF, and think it’s time to relegate that to the “empty promise” category.
I don’t think Giorgio has yet told us how he came to his conclusion, so we can only speculate. Maybe there is a fear that will all the choices already available to FreeFalcon flyers, FLARE won’t measure up and will get lost. Although it doesn’t appear that would happen given the screenshots Giorgio published so far, it’s not hard to imagine that could be a concern. But IMO it also beautifully illustrates why we as devs should concentrate on improving the only Falcon variant that has a future, and that many others have come to a like conclusion.
No one can change Giorgio’s mind. The best we can do is to present the facts and hope that Giorgio weighs them as an engineer instead of listening to the rants of fanboiz. It’s really as simple as that.
@ Trenton:
Again, I don’t see where the problem is. If you are tired of waiting just focus on FF and stop complaining about other versions that you dismiss as empty promises. Additionaly take a break and enjoy some fresh air in your Bangkok!
If you think that FF has so many choices why does it matter so much to you if I don’t release F.L.A.R.E for FF? As you said, it would get lost anyway. You don’t even realize how you keep contradicting yourself with your own words in your intent to provoke me.
Let me also say that I don’t think that is wise to call ignorant the people who think differently from you. Soon you could be proven very wrong and then the things you wrote here will stay forever as an embarrassment for you.
This is a sad decision for me.
You’re tiles project is simply the best we can see. This is why there is so much passion about your project. FF players as well as OF players would like to have it for their favorite sim.
I think it will greatly improve low flying experience. It’s something I have been waiting for long.
I don’t know about the differences in requirement for the tiles of the 2 versions, so I can’t judge your decision.
However I still hope that once finished there will be a chance to adapt it to FF. Maybe an adaptation by a “FF team” whith your support???
After all currently Hires Tiles can be adapted to both versions.
Good luck for your project.
Lot of FF pain over Giorgio’s decision.
Understandable.
Jojo very nice post. Your a gentleman.
@ Trenton
To cry about no tiles for FF and then to infer that his work is subpar and would get lost in all the new developments for FF ….. dude ….. the doctor told you — you have to take your ‘meds’ every day !!
well…as a matter of fact, you seem to be ignorant of what a real development can be , but you are forgiven because cosmetic changes are the only thing you have ever experienced … i say, maybe the ignorant is not the one saying he is not
Hardly complaining at all. I have moved on as mentioned above, but I think it is also just as important to set the record straight. But if you think that the OF delay of over a year is acceptable, at what point do you think a delay is unreasonable? 18 months? 2 years? At some point we must pronounce it dead.
I’m not in Bangkok at the moment. Rather this is being posted from the Pattaya Beer Garden by the sea.
Giorgio Bertolone :If you think that FF has so many choices why does it matter so much to you if I don’t release F.L.A.R.E for FF? As you said, it would get lost anyway. You don’t even realize how you keep contradicting yourself with your own words in your intent to provoke me.
There is a reason that FreeFalcon flyers enjoy the choices as characterized by a couple posters above, and it really isn’t hard to figure out why. Also as mentioned above, I would hate to think I was wasting my time, which is why I switched to FreeFalcon. By the same token, I would hate to see anyone else wasting their valuable time, which is why I (and perhaps others) thought it important to post.
I think if you carefully re-read my post above, I said that thinking FLARE would get lost in the choices currently available was unreasonable given what we’ve seen from your pictures so far. No contradiction, and no attempt to provoke. But there’s no need to apologize, and I will try to write more simply in the future to help make it easier to understand. However, as this is the second time you’ve mischaracterized a post of mine, please do read them a little more closely.
Giorgio Bertolone :Let me also say that I don’t think that is wise to call ignorant the people who think differently from you. Soon you could be proven very wrong and then the things you wrote here will stay forever as an embarrassment for you.
The word ignorant basically means lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact.
I don’t think I’ve called any one poster ignorant, but let’s look at an example. In a post above, someone wrote that FreeFalcon was nothing but cosmetic changes. And yet the multi-player improvements since Red Viper left are nothing short of spectacular. Can anyone really believe that changing a skin fixed MP? That really boggles the mind. But it also shows the extent to which the fanboyz will go to; outright prevarications, and (giving them the benefit of doubt) ignorance.
As molnibalage alluded to above, if someone from the OF camp offered tangible points supporting their statements, it would be a different discussion completely. But what we see instead is outlandish comments by them, unsupported by any facts.
It would be sad if one based their decision on where to invest hundreds of hours on such vacuous statements, but at the end of the day, it’s their decision to make.
I am happy to leave my posts up, and justify them if needed; after all, it’s the least I can do to help anyone trying to decide.
Personally, I’d be rather more embarrassed being associated with some of the posters I’ve read in this thread.
That’s certainly true when I flew OF, but now that I moved on to FreeFalcon, it’s a wonderful thing.
yeah ok i understand better your position now.
It is clear than going from a complete unplayable MP to a MP that allows a 4 players connexion is spectacular…
But on the other hand, FF MP is still heavily busted, hardly useable and is unplayable compare to OF MP code.
I’m sorry, but what is spectacular for you may not be spectacular for me.
what is spectacular is more the hundreds of crashlogs that have been posted since FF5 release… !
You are clearly mislead trenton..and as your worst fear was to work for nothing..i’m sorry to tell you that it is cleary the case
What is certainly spectacular is that we’re discussing a simulation that was originally released in 1998, and is continuing to be developed and improved with each new release by the kind folks at FreeFalcon.
Do you really think so highly of yourself and so little of Giorgio and the other readers of this thread that they won’t go to look and see exactly how often crash logs are being posted at the FreeFalcon forum?
Such prevarications…
You should be ashamed of yourself!
Well the funny thing is that they regurarly clean the thread about the crashlog…which is understandable on a practical point of view of course:)
Now before saying i should be ashame of myself, maybe you should learn a little bit of falcon history particularly
1) they way FF has splitted with BMS
2) The way they treated me and my work (even if they still use it of course)
Remember that and remember it well : “i dont understand the math here” ….
“what is spectacular is more the hundreds of crashlogs that have been posted since FF5 release… !”
If I posted my every chrasholg in OF it would be quite ling stuff not counting the FPS issues. Comparing how less I flew OF this is very long…
No offense mav-jp, but you are a very rude guy. You speaks the work on another team as you are a FalcoGod, but you have not shown anything from your skills, work that maybe explain why we should belive oh, my Lord…
@mav-jp
Now we see your true colors. You feel slighted, so you think it’s okay to lie and insult others. Your mother must feel proud…
Quite honestly, after seeing your behavior in this thread, I’m not surprised others wanted to get rid of you.
With regard to FreeFalcon’s crash logs: IMO, cleaning the thread is a good idea. And anyone can get an idea of how often crash logs are posted just by signing on a couple times a day. One will quickly see there aren’t hundreds at all.
The important thing to understand is that with FreeFalcon there is actually a place where users can post crash logs where people care and really do something about them. Sadly, that’s not the case with OF.
Ho yes i am a rude guy, everybody knows that !!LOL that’s very old news !!!
however, once again, learn your Falcon4 history and you will see who started to be rude !…now.. finally…i thank those guys who have been rude first, they allowed me to go on working in the right direction
@ molni…if your think i have not shwown “anything” on my skills, i suggest that you remove the F16 FM from all the falcon variants (OF/FF/AF) and install SP3 or SP4 instead
Firstly i never lie , you should know that.
and secondly, i never insulted anybody (you did btw)…i’m just saying the truth…truth that you are clearly not ready to accept..that’s all.
mav-jp
More lies from you. You are no better than a troll and have lost all credibility in this thread.
Getting back to the subject of the thread: It was announced on the FreeFalcon about an hour ago, that FreeFalcon 5.5.2 is in Beta and could be released as early as this weekend. http://www.freefalcon.com/forum/showpost.php?p=184172&postcount=3
Whereas OF’s last release is still back in 2008.
@Giorgio
Although I understand your mind is made up, my hope is that you will spend some time reading the FreeFalcon forums so that you may get to know the devs there and better compare what is really going on, versus what people like mav-jp and his ilk would have you believe.
where do you see lies again ? jeeez !! open you eyes, and your MIND !!
@Molni & Trenton : could you please stop your childish posts ?
If don’t even know what mavjp has done for falcon since he works on it, then you don’t even deserve flying falcon 4.0.
You want facts. Here are facts :
- FF is crap online. don’t ask me why the majority of the VFW don’t use it for their online flights.
- JP has made the FMs you’re using everyday on FF. He is rude, sometimes an asshole, but he never lies. And believe me, he knows things you’d never imagine possible.
- OF4.8 will never be released because something much greater is coming, but you may not have heard about it because all the way in FF’s glory vision.
- FF DB is still full of wrong things (I don’t say OF is not).
- Don’t tell people from FF support developers. Otherwise, I wouldn’t be in the opposite team right now.
These are facts. Now please go away and let Lupin work quietly.
Please.
@Buzzz
I wasn’t going to respond to mav-jp because I don’t like to encourage the trolls, but since you brought it up, here’s one:
mav-jp said there were hundreds of FreeFalcon 5 crashlogs posted – that is a lie.
And there are more.
As you say, mav-jp may very well be an asshole, but being a liar crosses the line.
Excuse me, but I concur with what JP said. I visit Freefalcon forums on a regular basis and if the crashlog thread wasn’t cleaned up regularly, the number of page for this topic would be indecently high. This is a FACT too
Then, who is the asshole ?
not to mention the “FF5.5 Issues or Concerns” thread. 73 pages say everything…
IF I should resume the difference in FF and BMS states of mind regarding the release of a product.
BMS is closed beta, where FF5.5 is an open beta. Even Eagle.ru wouldn’t dare to release something buggy as FF5.5.xxxx.
Then you would be wrong. Anyone can monitor the thread to see how often crash logs are posted.
Mav-jp could be the best modder in the world (he is obviously not an engineer). But as a liar, he is a man without credibility.
“could you please stop your childish posts ?”
Childish? Until he does not prove his right he is childish. If the working and usable BMS4 will be posted I will admire him.
——————————-
“JP has made the FMs you’re using everyday on FF.”
The funny thing that I never feelt what is the difference between the old and HFFM. At this time I was a noob for Falcon. If I comapare them now maybe I can discover the difference.
————————–
“not to mention the “FF5.5 Issues or Concerns” thread. 73 pages say everything…”
And most of postes “isses” are not bugs, just user do not understand the fetures of Falcon or the limitation of AI and modeling and the number of pages are defined by number of posts and not their long and importance…
——————————
“FF is crap online.”
Maybe it is for you. OF even in single is a crap for me. When I made the video for video contest the FPS was so low even a single TE that I had to cry. I was not able to put so many AC and vehicle as for FF movies. Campaigns? They are so empty comapring other FF campaign, that I have to laugh… I had three different config and on ALL configs the FPS was quite low. On an empty airfiled while I on the ground the FPS sometimes does not reach 24. I don’t know why…
——————————
“He is rude, sometimes an asshole, but he never lies.”
I never said that he lied. I said he is asshole becuase he said about FF that is more than rude.
——————————
“FF DB is still full of wrong things (I don’t say OF is not).”
Pls. list them. You won’t find as serious the you will find in OF. Do not forget that for some AC the loadout models a certain era.
Please link me to this post!
PS why are you making a “MolniFalcon”? Why isnot your work being placed directly into FF?
Hahahahaahahahahahahaha….
Ho boy !! i start to understand better your position
With over 30 as an engineer, I’ve never known one to be a liar.
You may call yourself whatever you wish, but who will believe you?
Why do you always go back to your FPS issues. If you can’t get you rig running fine, you can’t accuse the software. Of course FF has higher FPS, but I have never had problems running a TE or a campaign in OF. BTW, I speak about ONLINE and you say “FPS are low”. What is the common point?
Last time I flew FF, the M2k had a loadout that has never been seen in any known era. ROFL
You are just pathetic !
First you are doing all the time personal attacks -involving my own mother – who by the way dont give a shit of Falcon world LOL
Secondly: you are making your own assumptions, without having a clue of who i am and what i’m doing in RL and for F4 world
Jsut because i said that from my point of view FF has no future ? Jeezzz THAT Must be so true if it justified so much personal attacks from FF fanboys…it’s just anger man !!
Do you know the Bisounours? You must be one of them…
I have a dog named Dino. Does that count?
well as long as my employer believes me, i’m fine with it LOL
For someone that doesn’t have an axe to grind it sure sounds like it, even dragging your montra over to nVidia.
How is it “obvious to anyone that the community has spoken clearly and loudly for Open Falcon” Prove it. Show me the numbers. When is the next OF to be released? You can’t. So please stop playing your same broken record.
Yes, I’m a little disappointed F.L.A.R.E. won’t be in FF, but that won’t kill FF because of it. It’s good to hear that the project is still going forward. The best of luck to you. Again, we are left with having to read between the lines about the progress of BMS4. Good to see it will have nice tiles.
@Naldo
Check my post on GF forum. There are not too many. If the posted link does not work or not in text the list I will upload again. I have somewhere.
I make the MolnFalcon becase not only HP changes in DB. Many modeling value and sensor properties will be changed and FF team do not accept this. Check my preview videos.
For ex. in ALL Falcon version most of red SAM are seriously inaccurate. If you have time maybe we can speak (in written form) on MSN and I will try to explain what is wrong with ALL Falcon version.
molni, Trenton, and especially mav-jp, Grow up. It’s the same old tired insulting slinging re-hash that just goes in circles. It gets old.
@Buzzz
I do not care that you don’t have. I HAVE! End of the story…
—————-
“Last time I flew FF, the M2k had a loadout that has never been seen in any known era. ROFL”
Great, you identify ONE jet that are not important in most of campaign. Pls. check my list on GF…
ho cmon, if i was a grown up, i would play video game !
and in addition of being an asshole, i am a revenchist && rancorous guy..be warned
just in case you dont follow, I dont understand the math here
Oh I follow the math, but your 2x=y will never equal molni’s
It’s not a game it’s a sim! dammit!
naaaaaaaaaa cmon, if you cant see the difference between SP3/SP4 fms and HFFM , better to call that a GAME …
Oh, that math… that’s a different story.
Molni… I can’t find the post.
Bump the 6 pages of error’s that you found for me. You say that they are critical…. I want to look at them again.
You must remember that these data edits are but a drop in the ocean here… Easy changes. But you need fullevidence to support these proposed changes, not just I read it in a book or joe blogson xyz forum post it. The philosophy of the old OF /BMS team is that these changes do not happen until they are fully backed up with evidence and they are fully tested.
I am also very surprised that FF rejected your work…..You say they are critical, but the FF management don’t think it?
There are far more important things to worry about than a 2 min fix about being able to load a missile on a hardpoint that you shouldn’t, when the campaign engine in OF and FF is seriously flawed and needs attention first.
I am also very surprised that you have so many CTD’s? I know of 1 100% repeatable ctd in OF that is again a super easy data edit. Apart from that hundreds of guys have flown on that untouched leaked beta for 4+ years now without issue. 20+ pilots.
But I am not here to post about comparisons..
So I await the links to these critical data issues.
It should be obvious that pretty much every major and minor VFW is flying Open Falcon — not FF.
Clearly you didn’t like the fact that I stated that Open Falcon is much more popular and has a significantly larger community base – on Nvidia forums. Tough.
That the way it is. Pick up your tits and stop crying. No one is bashing FF ….. just stating the facts of what the VFWs are flying in the Falcon scene.
Wow. Just… Wow. It’s friday and I just wasted 30 minutes reading all that. You know, being completely unbiased? Both OF and FF can have a very elitist attitude. I said CAN. Not always. It’s turned me off away from both communities. That can be true with loyalties in life; but in discussions like this, its ESPECIALLY apparent. Its either disinterested silence to emotional sarcasim; take your pick. Both just as frustrating to new players.
I guess what I’m trying to say is all development to a certain extent should be respected and commended, and I tip my cap to Giorgio, as I have and do countless other of these factionized developers. It’s a shame Giorgio even had to make this decision. Ultimately, it’s futile when theirs such a disinterest in forming a UNIFIED dev team to start something beyond falcon; Especially when theirs soooooooooo much talent. NOBODY should be arguing that. On both sides. Fans and committed developer alike. For every Gilman Louie; you’ve got 10 Huslters. Eagle Dynamics? Never could produce a real SUCCESSOR to Falcon. Sadly? As long as this attitude of factionalized elitism exists… FF and OF will be as good as it’ll ever get; vaporware or not. Frankly, I’m happy with that and my respective choice. FF is so far from perfect, it’s cute. OF is no different in my eyes. Merely a preference… but if this… this apple orange/fact fiction bickering is any indication of what flight sim development was like in 2000, then its no shock that the flight sim era is DEAD… and I fear gone forever.
Real bittersweet. Just my two cents… Now its friday. Dont know about ya’ll; but I got a strip club or two to get to.
Congrats on F.L.A.R.E. and its progress. It looks great.
I am disillusioned enough to know that no man’s opinion on any subject is worth a damn unless backed up with enough genuine information to make him really know what he’s talking about.
~H. P. Lovecraft
+1
wow,
freefalcon folks grew a pair of balls??
you do sound loud these days lads,, hope you don’t get to become submissive into extinction soon…
cherios.
Well Giorgio is what is it. FF users can only regret it. Maybe once the job will be finnished we’ll find a way…or not.
But please FF fans, stop arguing with Mav this is useless.
He don’t like FF and he will denigrate it each time he can.
He’s working on BMS “black project”, has objectively some coding skills and even greater ego.
He don’t want to comunicate on BMS development so he will make as much noise as he can denigrating FF.
@Naldo
http://www.mediafire.com/?12zh3q5qf8nahx2
I wrote the original in Dec. of 2008. I updated a bit, but I checked only the “core” for the game. I can pinpoin more issues if we want.
Sorry for the delay but my net connection was not avaiable since Friday…
Correct
nope, i just dont like some FF guys that have treated me like shit…that’s all…
So what ?
I just said that I believe that FF is a dead horse since RV coders left. I feel sorry (and i really am) for all the data coders and 3D devs that have/are work(ed)ing hard for FF. I also believe that the path chosen by FF is not the one i want to follow for F4 development but i always accepeted that some people are liking it !
First and foremost congrats to Giorgio on his FLARE project. I know about tiling enough to see that this current endeavour of his IS one of the most serious graphical upgrade to Falcon4 terrain since Tom Twaelti’s payware tiles and Ayes’es cockpits. Hopefully, his project will be completed and soon available to Falconeers of whatever banner and “denomination” they are under.
Second …. allegations that Free Falcon is dormant is as inaccurate and incorrect as … perhaps simmilar statements about Open Falcon’s current state of development. To back up the first part of the statement with the fact – I am personally involved in one of Free Falcon’s very interesting Projects , results of which, will be for certain available to the Falcon public in the near future.
Bottom line of all this is that “if there is a will…there is always a way”. There is a way to exchange new terrains, new TE’s, new models, new campaigns, new improvements and gooddies to the best simulation there is. There may be some differencies, some nuances , some “flavours”. Nothing and never too great for being too difficult to overcome.
So instead of making 92 posts of mutual disinformation and auction of “whos grass is greener” why not to spend some time thinking and planing how both communities can benefit from this and other, hopefully soon emerging and coming, Projects. As long as there is a will… a GOOD WILL.
Everyone is for goodwill. We can only hope for cooperation, but as you see egos are fragile.
Please remember that it was FF fanbois who got upset over Giorgios decision.
Clearly Giorgio is very talented, hence the overwhelming response to F.L.A.R.E. Trust in that talent and his ability to judge which platform is most suitable for his work.
I agree that where there is a will there is a way, however there is not always the time.
For now its Open Falcon, down the road if ‘some’ people ask nice perhaps there will be time for other projects. Who knows…. but I do know that flaming seldom if ever works on a freeware project.
Its one thing to pay for a product and bitch ( do it all the time ) its quite another to enjoy the fruits of someones labor for free and then to question the manner in which he provides for your enjoyment.
May the day come when we are all flying ONE unified version. Till then I agree, Good Will.
Pretty sad all you guys gotta bring your differences, and whine like little girls to someones website that is working hard at a project of his choice. He is doing this because he enjoys doing it. I cant believe he hasn’t taken this post down yet. I wouldn’t put up with all this bullshit.
Keep up the good work. I look forward to this project no matter where it goes.
Anyone who cannot tell the difference between the HFFM and the others should not attempt to recommend a Falcon flavour to others, just fly your favorite one (or Combat Ace if you prefer) and don’t pontificate about things that are beyond your reach.
And if you want to learn the difference, get real manuals and compare, practise f.e. the real HART maneuvers with and without HFFM, you will tell the difference.
Now, you don’t really need to know who is who in the soap opera Falcon history (something impossible for that matter and quite useless) but is a fact that Mav-JP made those HFFM and it appears (from his words) that FF is using it without his complete consent. Thoses HFFM (and the doc that came with it) are an amazing work of art and sure it was a hard work, I don’t approve anyone who appropiates other’s work.
Regarding my choice, I don’t even need to install FF and OF to compare, I only need to read FF manual and OF Dash-34 and I see right away which simulation is on my line.
Cheers
Tulkas
you misunderstood
HFFM are completely free for everybody and freefalcon is completely free to use them.
the problem was something else…whatever FF is dead, i dont need to criticize or to charge the deads finally
Hi Giorgio im Italian, my squadron it’s the 69°Squadrone
My Name it’s Riccardo and my CallSign it’s Pegaso.
Thank you so much Giorgio!!!!
Very very nice work!!!
I love Falcon by far 1998, choosing OpenFalcon you made the best choice you could make!!!
Thanx Again (im very happy for this… yeahhhhh)
postscript:
AF = an simply SIM
FF = an very good SIM with very nice graphic
OF = it’s THE SIM!!!! (but OF it’s my love… i love its avionics system and the other system, very very close to reality)
From Rome, close formation for your project! Go go go my friend…
i am for open falcon too.
greetings
amigastar
FF is terrible. A flashy arcade game while OF, even if it isn’t being developed is The Sim.
That is all.
Good work on the project.
Well, what a stupid remark. FF is still a Falcon 4 variant, and calling Falcon 4 a flashy arcarde game is simply crackbrained.
I love the OF avionics suite as well, but unfortunatly it’s of no value as the package as a whole turned out to be unusable.
Free Falcon turned out to be unusable as well, and I hate this manual. But still I do respect all the guys who put so much work into it. And being the only version being offcially and actively developed at the moment it may become closer to being usable with time.
Missing the one or the other feature from OF is sad, but simply means nothing if the sim works as a whole. Especially true for AF – if you really want to fly Falcon, go and fly AF … no point in whining about missing features or worse gfx – at least you can do some serious MP flying in campaign and not just make screenshots in TEs as most of the guys do nowadays.
FF is still Falcon4 and its developers do love this sim as much as we do. And it’s not yet dead, actually its quite active currently. It may die somewhen if this mysterious BMS really sets the new standard. That may be tomorrow or never. Currently calling FF arcade is BS as well as calling it dead. Both statements are simply not true.
I also agree with my pears above, OF is way too old…
The best game mode in F4 is multi-player… and the most stable platform is Allied Force for that purpose…!
I highly recommend F4 Allied Force!