Dante De Patta, one of the main guys behind the development of Jet Thunder, was nice enough to give me the opportunity to interview him. He made some very interesting and refreshing points and I would like to thank him again for his availability. Not many developers are so approachable and open about their projects so this is a pretty rare opportunity. Jet Thunder is very promising simulation and we should all support the work of this independent company. Enjoy the interview!
Hi Dante, thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. Jet Thunder is a very promising project and it seems to get better at every update. Today the number of serious simulators is very limited and we are really pleased to see the work that you guys are doing.
Can you please briefly introduce yourself? What is your role?
My name is Dante De Patta and I teach digital arts in a computer graphics school in Brazil (3DS Max, Photoshop, Maya etc). I’ve been involved with game development since the early 90s when I’ve programmed a Commodore Amiga shooter game (released for free in Aminet) and participated in other projects, one of them a professional project released by an international publisher recently.
In Jet Thunder project I am responsible for the game’s concept, I do game design, art (many of the models, all cockpits currently seen), PR, website updates/videos, and even some script coding (FM fine tuning and cockpits code).
When did you decide to start the development and what were your reasons?
Always had strong interest in military aviation and computer flight sims, I thought of an interesting scenario that never got a proper flight sim (Falklands/Malvinas), so the original vision I had for Jet Thunder, was an in-depth study sim of the Royal Navy Sea Harrier FRS.1 aircraft. It’d be closely tied with the books “Sea Harrier Over The Falklands” by Cdr ‘Sharkey’ Ward, and “Hostile Skies” by David Morgan.
Both excellent books if you’re into carrier warfare operations during a real, bitter campaign. I’ve received from one of the veterans a copy of the Sea Harrier FRS.1 Aircrew manual, a massive book, an absolute rarity you won’t find in the internet (you may find the AV-8B Harrier II manual, but it’s a completely different beast). The argentinean side would be represented originally by the Dassault Mirage aircraft, due to its multirole use in the war (the Mirage 5/Dagger).
Due to public demand, I’ve added a set of extra aircraft (A-4 Skyhawks, Super Etendard and Pucara). Although having so many planes, turns the product into a survey sim instead of a study sim, and deviates from its original vision.
In order to complete a project like this I am sure you need more than passion, you need financial resources. What are the challenges of finding a good publisher?
Exactly. The main challenge is the fact that the top programmers who are able to understand and work in a complex system such as a flight simulator 3D engine, are already employed full-time by the big studios developing the usual games that these studios are doing. So, the key word is “counterproposal”, which means I’d need a good amount of funds to launch these counterproposals to hire these professionals and place them in a full-time development schedule. The link gives an idea of the values involved.
I hate to say this, but “indie” part-time unfunded development may work fine for small games like download-only puzzle or platform action and iPhone games, but true flight sims are huge and complex pieces of software and require *a lot* of commitment from a large team, so the keyword here is “full-time”, and for this to happen, funds must be allocated.
Having said this, when I started the product, I never believed it could be completed without funds, we only tried to get as far as a concept playable demo, and with this concept playable demo, show to publishers to be able to obtain the needed funds. But then, publishers don’t get it, see next answer.
Based on your experiences would you say that these publishers understand the concept of your simulator? Do they give you freedom or do they ask you to make it more arcade in order to sell it to a bigger market?
Most publishers have a hard time trying to understand the appeal of realistic flight simulators in general. In fact, for some of them, even something like the Ace Combat series is considered “too hard to play” to the typical gamer, and is usually out of their league.
I’ve learned then, that “arcade flight action” genre (in which HAWX and Ace Combat fits, more in next answer) is a niche in itself, and although a much bigger market than true flight sims, are still quite hard to understand and manage in the publishers’ point of view.
Although there are very few publishers that understand true flight sims and would allow the product to be the original vision, these are very small publishers that are already dedicated to the simming or wargaming niches and they currently don’t have the resources needed for the development of a full-blown flight sim.
Are you willing to sacrifice some realism to convince a possible publisher?
It is interesting to mention here, that all top PC flight sims have realism and difficulty settings to adjust the gameplay experience, but no matter how the player “scale it down” for a more action-oriented experience, they will never play like HAWX or Ace Combat, because these are completely different products, apples and oranges, to be honest.
So, sacrificing realism to convince a publisher would not be enough – publishers would actually demand these completely different products, which only share the theme (military aviation).
Are serious simmers a too small minority to justify the development of a simulator in the eyes of a publisher?
In the eyes of a publisher, yes they are a minority, and worst of all, it is a tough crowd to please. This is confirmed by the fact that all true Jet sims at the moment are self-published, sold by download (DCS/Eagle Dynamics etc).
Why do you think that today is so hard to develop study simulations? Years ago there were a lot of them, what do you think happened?
This is a excellent question and the best answer is from CJ Martin (one of the lead developers of classic Janes products like Janes F15 and Janes F18) in the QuarterToThree forums.
“Raising the bar turned out not to be a good idea – it shrank the market and increased dev costs while other genres were exploding. We all were guilty of raising the bar too high – EA / MPS / SSI. No one product did it. And we did that right as the market was taking off in new directions. That is why there are no AAA sims in development.”
Non-simulator games like HAWX sold more than 1 million of units and the market seems to be favorable to these kind of no-brain games. Do you think people really like this genre or do you think they buy it because there is nothing else?
Aviation-themed games are still few and far between nowadays, so this may be one of the reasons. Without riskying being a grumpy and elitist hardcore simmer, I would say it’s good that these games are out there as an entry-level point into aviation-themed gaming products.
The release 3 years ago of that Ace Combat product bundled with what looked like a Saitek HOTAS joystick (Ace Combat 6 flight stick bundle) was quite nice and smart because the control method is one of the complaints of the publishers (“flight sims are bad because they force the player to buy an expensive joystick!” yes I’ve heard this once).
Do you believe that the future will be brighter for simulation?
It is possible that a decent fraction of the 1 million gamers who bought HAWX, and 10 million Ace Combat customers would wish to proceed to more serious grounds after their entry-level experiences with their previous products, so they may strenght the current user base.
I honestly think that the user base is still there – the same that existed in the 90s during the Golden Age of flight simming, the problem, as stated by CJ Martin, is all about money – development costs skyrocketed because the bar has been raised too high – and with same money it is possible to profit in easier, less-troublesome-to-develop genres like… anything else. If the money problem is “fixed”, a Top flight sim with the 90′s appeal/polishment/”soul”/campaign/editors and with modern graphics/FM/DM could be developed and will heat the genre again. We all know that huge amounts of money are wasted in doomed projects like “This Is Vegas” by Midway/Warner, so with some luck, some of this money could reach a flight sim developer instead (wishful thinking, but hope is a good thing).
How hard is to find good programmers and artists with the right skills for Jet Thunder?
It is quite hard, because as stated above, most are already employed by studios under funding and many have contracts explicitly prohibiting them to work in parallel part-time projects in the same industry (gaming industry).
Do you have any books to reccomend for folks who can’t wait to try Jet Thunder and want to read about history?
“Sea Harrier Over The Falklands” by Cdr ‘Sharkey’ Ward, “Hostile Skies” by David Morgan, “Vulcan 607″ by Rowland White, “RAF Harrier Ground Attack Falklands” by Jerry Pook, etc.
Lots of books in this subject, it’s a fascinating subject with plenty of literature available.
Is there something else that you would like say and add to this interview?
Thanks for the support we’ve enjoyed so far from the whole flight sim community, it’s very heartwarming. And thanks for the patience, keep believing, sooner or later JT will happen!
Also thanks Giorgio for the interview, keep up the good work with the blog.
Dante, thank you for this interview. I wish you the best with the development and I will look forward to new updates.